Calling off wedding.. update pg 2

"..he always said "Things will get better when we move in together/get engaged/get married.." "Everything will change when x, y, z.." "

OMG. I read this and it hit me like a wall.

My ex used to say this all the time.. and he was very manipulative and emotionally abusive.

I'm not saying my situation is the same as yours.

It does seem very similar, though.

When you mention lying, swearing, yelling, name calling, financial irresponsibility, and selfishness.. all I can think of is my old situation.

You say he has never hit you before, and all I have to say about that is.. if you were in a healthy relationship, why would that be something you would need to mention?

If he was not acting in a way that is emotionally and verbally abusive, you would not have to clarify that he is not physically abusive as well.

I realized this one day when thinking of my current relationship compared to the one prior.

I would never need to clarify that my fiancé has never hit me, because he does not act in a way that would make people think he has.

Just food for thought.

Abuse is a really scary word, and I can see why you'd want to shy away from it. But name calling, manipulation, guilting, lying--these are all emotional abuse, even if it only happens when he's angry. This is they way my father treated my mother for 40 years, and the way he treated all 4 of his children. His parents were shitty too. I still have memories of him screaming at me as a toddler/preschooler because I couldn't stop crying after being scolded or getting my nails trimmed (I hated that). When I finally stopped crying I would usually hyperventilate for maybe a minute and he would scream at me to stop doing that too, even though my mother would beg him to stop, knowing I couldn't help it as a 2 year old. As I got older I learned to control my emotions and to avoid him as much as possible. Still, I loved him and this is the way I expected and allowed myself to be treated until I met my FH, and the way my 28 year old brother treats everyone. I know my mother never divorced him because she loves him, and she knows that he loves her. This love kept our family living in the same house but we're still broken. Based on what you've shared here, my advice would be don't get married or have children until after his behavior changes and stays respectful through times of stress and change.

@MPH, yes couple can hang out with their friends without each other. That is totally normal and should happen. What should not happen is that one lies to the other about it. He could have tried to communicate that he wasn't feeling the dinner and would rather do something else. He probably didn't do that because he knew it was fishy and would probably cause an argument, so he tried to cover it up with lies and still tried to cover it up with claiming 'miscommunication' once he got caught.

I don't know your FH and nobody here does, so nobody will claim that he is a bad guy and will never change, but from your descriptions it sounds like he doesn't necessarily want to. It sounds like he's trying for a bit to satisfy you enough so you hold on for another while. Lots of us grew up in bad households, my mum would often yell at my dad and he would not react, I can't fight well to this day. My FHs dad left when he was young and he has a huge fear of abandonment. We all have our burden to carry, but if we don't communicate with our significant others about what haunts us and how we could make it better, the relationship will likely not work out.

"But doesn't this happen with everyone's significant other sometimes?"

No. Not like that. FH would NEVER treat me like that. Sure, he needs alone time, but he would never lie to me to get out of going somewhere with friends.

"I guess part of why I feel so conflicted is because I truly believe he wants to make these changes for himself. I don't know."

He wants YOU to believe that he will makes these changes for himself.

[Redacted] I decided to remove a portion of my story. You don't need my story, and I honestly would rather not have it on the forums nor do I want to think about it anymore.

He WON'T change unless he thinks that it will get him somewhere with you. But it always comes back. It's a hard habit to break which takes a LOT of work, and you shouldn't marry him until he's put in that work and shows true change. My honest opinion is that you should leave the relationship because he won't change no matter what he says. Actions speak louder than words, and his actions are very clear.

Mine was cancelled 2 weeks ago and today I just contacted my vendors. I lost all my deposits. But the videographer at least will be refunding me what I paid beyond the deposit. You just have to read your contracts to see your options. The florist is at least allowing me to transfer the deposit I paid to someone else.

As far as family and friends, it depends on who it is on how much information I tell. Some I've said nothing besides were not getting married, others I've told everything. It's up to you on what you want to say about the postponement/cancellation.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Good Luck with everything.

I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. I think in your heart, you know what your next step should be. It won't be easy, but with time and support from those who matter, you will feel even more free and at peace with what you will hopefully leave behind. I wish you the very best and hope that no matter what you decide to do, you are happy.

I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. I think in your heart, you know what your next step should be. It won't be easy, but with time and support from those who matter, you will feel even more free and at peace with what you will hopefully leave behind. I wish you the very best and hope that no matter what you decide to do, you are happy.

MPH, he doesn't have to hit you for it to be abuse.

It does sound like there's some emotional abuse and manipulation going on. It's a cycle - he does something hurtful, you fight about it, he tries to make it up to you and things are good for a while, then he does it again.

No one deserves to be lied to, screamed at, or called names. That is not normal. It's not healthy. It's not okay. You deserve to be loved, appreciated and RESPECTED. Don't rationalize his bad behaviour. There's no justification for it.

Look after yourself, MPH. You are your top priority. We're here anytime you need us.

Man @O&S you hit spot on with my thoughts as I was reading through this post! You're speaking the hard truth.

@MPH - I have been in a similar relationship. Reading your thoughts gave me flashbacks to the last relationship I was in before meeting FH. PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE FOR OTHERS. My ex had a drinking habit that all too often lead to hurtful comments, name calling, and my faults being thrown in my face. This is verbal abuse and will take it's toll on you. Not to mention how hard it is on your children to see and hear (if that's in your future). You should never feel alone in a relationship. You haven't said this directly, but it seems like you do. I spent 3 years with my ex constantly promising to change, get better for a few months and then go right back into the same habits. Good intentions aren't enough. Action needs to follow. Sometimes we are so deep in the situation we can't see the picture as clearly as those standing outside.

If your instincts are holding you back, LISTEN. You deserve to be happy and in a fulfilling relationship. From the sounds of it, it is not with him. It is REALLY hard to make the decision to move on. It sucks BIG time initially. When I finally moved out, I felt like a huge weight had been lifted. My headaches subsided, I lost weight, and I smiled a whole lot more.

Best wishes!! My heart goes out to you.

The relationship indeed does sound toxic. Yes, it is normal that you and your SO fight and disagree - but it's not normal that there isn't a level of maturity and mutual respect. Name calling? Lying? This all sounds like your FH is not ready for a serious commitment such as marriage.

It sounds as though you both are very young, though you sound like you are mentally mature enough to marry, it doesn't sound like your FH is.

@MPHGirl23 - I'm sorry, sweetie, but I have to agree with everyone else. This has emotional abuse written all over it. But, because you're a nice girl, you try to brush it off as okay and that he really is a good person. I can't speak to his redeeming qualities. But they don't make up for the way he treats you. But, as Elizabeth pointed out, it's not normal. Wanting to spend time alone is healthy. Lying and treating you badly is not okay, though.

"Gahhh I hate even writing these things, I look so pathetic and weak. " Please don't ever say that about yourself again! This is another reason I don't think you should be with him. If you were with someone that lifted you up instead of dragging you down, you couldn't dream of thinking this way. You sound like me before FH...I'm a person accustomed to blaming myself or being overly accommodating to others' problems. I picked these issues up growing up, and dragged those into two long emotionally abusive relationships before I figured it all out more.

But the truth is, sticking around won't change that person. It won't magically make them treat you better. Like CBtoCL said, I don't know him. I can't say he's some terrible person. But everything you've described sounds like he postponed treating you better for this or that, and now is trying to pretend he's changed so you won't leave him. Real change is not a switch you flip. It takes time and effort and real understanding of how you are treating others. And you have to want to change to make yourself better, not just to keep someone or momentarily appease them.

I'm so flustered right now just trying to type out my thoughts, because it seems by the way you talk about yourself that he is toxic to your opinion of yourself. The moment I finally stopped blaming myself for other's being shitty people is the moment I stopped saying things like "I shouldn't be saying this, I have things to work on, too. I'm being too harsh, they have such a great personality. I'm just not working hard enough..." Emotional abuse is just as bad as physical abuse. He may not be hitting you, but he is hurting you inside. You aren't overreacting, because the things he does are NOT okay, regardless of where the root of his actions comes from (his influences growing up). AND he is making you think it's your fault and that you're crazy, contrlling, and overbearing for calling him out on it??? That bothers me tremendously, because it is not the case AT ALL... He will need to realize that for himself, and want to change for himself, before he could ever be good to you. And that is not something that happens easily or often...and it might not happen for the fact that he gets to keep you if you stay: why change when he gets the prize either way... I'm not saying a person has to have it all together to be worth staying with. But he has some severe issues in the way he treats you and how much he disrespects you. I agree with O&S about getting counseling for yourself alone, I know it helped me a lot when I was in a similar position. But one thing you need to remember is that you are worth it. You are not crazy for wanting someone who won't lie to you, won't call you names when you fight, and won't make you feel bad about yourself. You DESERVE to have someone who understands what it means to be someones partner, who gets how to love someone else. I'm not saying that person will be baggage-less, because who is? But they won't mistreat you. They won't ignore the obvious fault in their actions and brush it off.

I really do hope the best for you. You can message me any time you want to someone to talk to, okay?

@NenaBear - You nailed what I tried to say in my ramblings (but much more smoothly!).

O&S nailed it!

My mom always told me with all my relationships, just because someone loves you doesn't mean you should marry them. You are a beautiful, intelligent, responsible, and LOVEABLE woman. No shit he doesn't have any hesitations in marrying you, I promise, many guys will not. We can't make the decision for you, however I attend to agree.

My friend was cancelling an engagement and mostly was soooo embarassed. Then once she realized how many celebrities in the public eye break engagements all the time, she realized that her issues can be handled. Lots of women here have given great hindsight about breaking past engagements, or not and getting divorced x number of years later. I hope your decision brings some peace whichever way you go. Thinking of you!

I agree that you may not be currently in an abusive relationship however a few of the warning signs are there. I would venture to say that there are far more verbal/emotionally abusive relationships then physical ones. It is pretty easy for most people to identify physical abuse but the line between immaturity and emotional abusive is not always clear. My concern comes not from his actions but how you have relayed the information to us. It is very clear that you know FH has made big mistakes but you want so badly to excuse them away for him and deescalate the severity. He needs to be accountable for his actions and you need to stick to your guns when you know something is wrong. I understand not wanting to tell your parents but doesn't your desire to hide the truth of your relationship from loved ones tell you there is something wrong. I am not going to tell you to leave him because that is a decision that always needs to come from you. However, I do advise you to see a counselor/social worker on your own. This person will be a safe third party sounding board. You wont have to fear them judging FH and hating him forever but they will always be working towards whatever solution is best for you.

You mentioned that his family has a history of being mean to each other/calling each other names. If he's doing this to you NOW, before you're even married, it will not end, and he WILL pass that along to your children, should you have them.

I'm not saying you need to cancel the wedding and the relationship, but you need to postpone the wedding until he SHOWS you, for a significant period of time, that he has changed. And there are no traces of this behavior.

Because no, normal, healthy relationships are not like this. Sure, couples argue & spend time apart, but that doesn't include LYING to avoid spending time with their spouse. That's a big red flag. Do what's best for YOU. I know you feel bad for him, that's because you're a good person. I'm sorry that's how he was raised too, but that doesn't mean you should have to suffer because of it. There are plenty of wonderful men who were not raised to treat their wife/GF like crap. Find one. I'm sure you'll have no problem. I wish you the very best of luck, and know that we're all here supporting you regardless of your decision.

I remember your first post and my heart goes out to you. You are a brave and inspirational woman for going to counseling and actually being serious about any doubts you are having.

MPHgirl - I am going to call it like it is. You are in an emotionally abusive relationship and you need to get out. Now. Look up "emotional abuse", "toxic relationships", and "gaslighting". I guarantee you will see your exact dynamic with your FH spelled out in black and white. Master manipulators like that DO NOT CHANGE. They will do and say just enough to make you think things are going to be different, so that you don't leave. Then as soon as they have you complacent, they slip right back in to their old habits, and often get worse. He will trap you financially, with a marriage license, with children (you do realize that his next excuse after you are married and he continues with his abusive behavior towards you is going to be "It will all be different once we have a baby ...", right?), and convince you there is no way out, so you feel you have to continue supporting him and putting up with his abuse. Please, for the live of all that is holy, cancel your wedding now, move out, and get counseling for yourself. You don't have to drop all contact with him or even sever the entire relationship. However, you do need to make an independent life for yourself right now to show yourself that life doesn't have to be this way, that you are going to be just fine on your own, and that you deserve better than this.

Just a quick comment. I don't want to preach. but I have a 14 yr old daughter who grew up with her dad treating me just like that, actually eventually I wasn't allowed friends, not without a 3 hour torture session of questions etc after seeing them. he was allowed friends. I wasn't.

he called me names and all the things your FH is doing. it got worse and worse. I eventually left 5 yearsa ago. as I said my daughter is now 14. she speaks to me how he did. acts how he did and doesn't see shes doing it, I don't even realise how bad she speaks to me all the time cos I am so used to it!

You need to think very carefully. is this a relationship you want your daughter to have. that's what made me leave, the thought that my daughter thought it was normal to be treated like it. it would break my heart if she was with someone who treated her like I was.

you can PM me if you need a chat.

big hugs honey xxxxx