PSA: PLEASE don't have your marriage performed by a friend ordained online!

This is a great topic. I was planning on having a friend perform the ceremony. She got ordained online to perform her Father's marriage. I live in Maryland but can't find anything online about this except for applying for marriage licenses. I don't belong to any churches so I don't know what to do now. The Officiants that you hire, how do they get licensed if it is not online? Would it be legal with them?

I wouldn't rely solely on this website - go to a state website and confirm , cause this may be erroneous or outdated - but this may help:

http://www.northernway.org/marriagelaws.html

Every state is different and some states are easier than others. The other factor to keep in mind is that just because your uncle Phil CAN do your wedding, it might not be the best choice.

With all due respect, that NYTimes article is four years old, and in NYC, their policy has changed. The do accept ULC ordinations, though not every state does. It is wise to check your state and county for their rules.

And yes, you should depend on the state website, not advice from anyone (including me, lol)

Celia, does all of New York now accept ULC ordinations? I'd love to see a citation for that one. At the time of the NYT article, the five boroughs of the city of New York accepted ULC ordinations, but Westchester County, Long Island and most of the Hudson Valley did not. I haven't seen a more recent case that has changed that result, although since I don't live in New York, I haven't followed the law there in detail.

My concern, though, is broader. Whether a wedding performed by a ULC minister is valid depends on state law. In some states, it is clear that such a marriage is invalid. (In addition to the ones listed in the article, I am aware that North Carolina and the District of Columbia prohibit marriages by such officiants, and I'm sure there are others.) In others, state law permits a minister to solemnize marriages, but the status of a ULC minister has never been tested. And of course, some states do recognize marriages performed by ULC ministers.

(cont.)

It is rare that a state website will give specific guidance on the status of ULC ministers. In the absence of specific guidance, only a lawyer who is admitted to practice in the specific state in which the person intends to get married could tell you what the law is in that state. However, it is rare that a bride seeks legal counsel before using a ULC minister as an officiant. And if the bride has not sought such counsel, I believe it would be prudent to use an officiant who clearly is authorized to perform marriages, rather than taking a chance.

And I say this as one with no vested interest in the outcome. I'm not an officiant. While I am an attorney, this is not an area in which I would give legal advice. My concern is simply to ensure that couples do not unknowingly risk their marriage being held to be invalid.

I will add that there really is no such thing as an "online ordination" per se. It is a misnomer. The application process happens online, but the ordination is through a brick and mortar church.

Also, many states no longer have JPs and so those are only an option in very few states. If someone is getting ordained just to perform one wedding, they likely will not know any of the things necessary to do a proper ceremony, and you're going to get a copy of something off the internet that thousands of others used (how special).

There are so many rules by state and county. I do not have to license in my state, so to whomever made that statement, that you must be licensed and ordained, that is not necessarily true. In many states, the ordination through one of the ways mentioned in the article are still fine, as long as the person is continuing in the ministry and not just getting ordained to fulfill one marriage.

This is a good caveat post, but don't just dismiss a minister based solely upon the ULC or other ordination. I have witnessed great ceremonies by those people and by seminary ordained, but have also witnessed some boring and horrid ones by both seminary ordained and a judge!

Thank you, great info!

Check the state laws, Indiana and Kentucky have no licensing requirements , just that one be ordained. In Michigan they want the officiant to actually have a congregation. Here is a link to marriage laws in all 50 states

http://www.usmarriagelaws.com/

I've actually written to my state senators and representatives to try and get the laws changed in New York. As of right now, our options are either a minister of some sort or an elected official (mayor, etc.), a judge or a city clerk, I believe. We wanted to avoid any sort of religion in our wedding, so we didn't want a minister. But we didn't like the impersonal nature of getting married by some random judge from the area. So, what were our options?

We ended up selecting an officiant that is a JP in Connecticut, but is legally allowed to conduct marriages in New York, but as a minister.

I know that in certain states, Florida being one of them, notary publics can perform weddings. A friend of mine was married by her uncle who became a notary public for the wedding. (Plus, it's always convenient to have one of those in the family!) I wish New York would do that.

I am a seminary ordained minister and am well aware of this issue. The first thing to realize is the primary factor that makes a minister legal not the state but the IRS. The Internal Revenue Service is the government body that is charged with determining a faith community as a religion. This is the first step used by all states to determine the validity of the faith community. After this validity is determined then the state will impose there own requirements upon the ministers. some states it as small as showing ordination documents, other my require as much as a copy of the IRS determination letter.

How to as a happy couple to make sure your minister is a valid officiant? Simple... Once you meet with a minister and you are ready to sign on the dotted line... Call the local licence issuing agency (clerk of courts, probate court, registrar, etc) . They know who is and is not a valid minister.

Those who may be worried about the validity of their wedding I recommend looking at you state laws. ALMOST all states have a provision that states that if you believed you minister was able to Solemnize your wedding then the wedding is valid but the minister may face prison time and or fines.

for more info i recommend going to www.usmarragelaws.com this site has marrege laws for all states and is a nice 3rd party site used by most ministers who travel over state lines. (Please note that I am in no way connected to this site)

@Rev Gary: Unfortunately, several of your statements may be true in your local area, but are not true nationwide. For example, not all states maintain lists of who is and is not a valid minister. I personally have researched the law for DC, Virginia, and North Carolina, and in those states, a marriage performed by someone ordained online is not valid, even if the parties believed that it was.

Marriages performed online are recognized in some states. However, it is rare for an individual planning to use a friend ordained online to hire a lawyer to determine whether a marriage performed by such a person is valid. And in the absence of that, why take a chance on whether your marriage will be valid?

Calling the licensing agency is still your best option. Even if they don't have a list of names, they can tell you whether an officiant you are considering meets their criteria by description. They are the authority on who qualifies and who doesn't, so getting the okay directly from them is the most secure way to go.

Rev. Dave, please do not further the misinformation; that is really not the best place to get info. I am not sure where they got their info for Michigan and you are not correct in that they must have a congregation.

Trust me, I have contacted the county clerks and others have contacted our state Representative to be sure. Having a church assignment or congregation is not a requirement according to the Michigan state law. Hundreds of retired ministers perform weddings every year in Michigan. Some newly ordained or graduated ministers may be waiting for church assignments. Some have ministries online, or in other nontraditional formats.

To J&R S. I reiterate that not all states require ministers to license. Michigan state's occupational license division (link below) clearly states that Michigan does not issue licenses for ministers.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jdxmu155te1bt045a3t32s55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-chap551

Rev. Burns, when I said "licensing agency" I really meant the state office with the authority to determine who is or isn't legally qualified to perform a marriage. That may not be the appropriate term in all states, but the advice is still correct. I said people should ask the appropriate state agency (or office, if you prefer) whether a potential officiant meets their criteria. The state doesn't have to have a list of registered officiants to be able to tell you whether someone who was ordained online from X church will be able to marry them legally in that state. What I'm saying is go to the source of the authority to perform legal marriages - the state - because you will get the right answer from them, versus potentially old or erroneous information online or elsewhere.

Anyhow, you'll get better and more correct information from the state where you get married than you will here.

Wow - thanks for posting this. I was planning on having a friend do it, and had read and re-read the rules and thought the online thing would be fine.

I am really, really grateful you posted. Hello Judge.