Catholic annulment: his ex-wife is not nice and the church will need to talk to her?!

Thanks Nonna and everyone else! Getting the marriage convalidated was actually a suggestion by the priest as an option, more a recommendation, actually (which I was surprised at but took it as a hint with his experience when I told him that the respondent may be untruthful). Even he said that with our date we might consider getting married outside the church first. Haha!

I went through the annulment process 12 years ago when I converted. My DH and I both had to have our previous marriages "annulled" in order for us to have our marriage convalidated. Neither of our ex's responded to the written questionnaire and it didn't hold anything up. We found the whole process to be a closure of sorts to the pain of our divorces. It took ours about 9 months to process.

If he was only civilly married why does he need the annulment? His first marriage wasn't recognized by the church as it wasn't a sacrament. Am I missing something??

I could've sworn you only get annulments on Catholic Church weddings since civil marriages aren't recognized.

ETA: Nvm I found this:

Q: I am marrying a person of another faith who is divorced. Does he (she) need an annulment?

A: Non-Catholics are not bound by the canon law of the Catholic Church except when they wish to marry a member of the Catholic Church. If the non-Catholic has been divorced, the marriage, in most circumstances is presumed to be valid, and therefore the person must obtain an annulment from a Catholic marriage tribunal before the Catholic wedding may take place.

I think that's a little odd considering they don't recognize the marriage, until you want to remarry and suddenly it's valid. Under the reason's for annulment, it says:

In order for a marriage to be valid in the eyes of the Church, there must be at least:

-a minimal knowledge of what constitutes sacramental marriage

-adequate maturity on the part of the spouse to understand the seriousness of lifelong commitment

-the ability to make a mature and responsible decision in accepting the duties that are to be assumed with marriage

-freedom from internal or external pressures and fears.

I'm thinking because he didn't actually get the sacrament, it should be an easy annulment process because he never had the sacrament. Maybe because it was only civil and not a sacrament the talking to the ex can be looked over?

Or give them a wrong number lol

ETA 2.0- I would argue because he had no knowledge of what constitutes sacramental marriage and because it wasn't a sacrament that took place his marriage was not valid. See if that gets you anywhere.

I am seeing how it is easier if he was baptized:

If a Catholic is married by someone other than a Catholic priest or deacon and in the presence of two witnesses but doesn’t have the required dispensation, the marriage is considered invalid. Should this union end in divorce and the Catholic seek to remarry in the Catholic Church, it will be necessary to obtain a declaration of freedom to marry by completing a form and providing documentation that establishes the baptism of the Catholic party, that the marriage was performed by someone other than a Catholic priest or deacon, and that the party has been civilly divorced.

This is a prime example as to why, even though I have a great respect for the Catholic church and everything Catholicism has done to enrich FH's life, I refused to "convert", do pre-cana, or have the church bless/approve our marriage. I just can't come to a point where I believe an institution and the bureaucracy that comes with it should rule my life and relationship, rather than being driven purely by my relationship (and FH's relationship) with God. Hope this doesn't offend any Catholics, because y'all are good people and this is just my perspective, although the majority of the Catholics I know definitely acknowledge having similar mental struggles from time to time!

I think this situation is an overstep and I disagree with the process. Pray about it, talk to FH, and see where you come out. If it is worth it to you to get everything done by the book, just endure, maintain all the documentation so it can be available to the right decision makers!

Really hope it all works out for you without too much heartache. It sounds like your priest is doing a great job guiding you and is compassionate about the situation.

I admit I only skimmed comments and didn't read each line thoroughly, but OP, why did you set a date and start booking vendors (I'm assuming the booking vendors part, I know) before this process was over? I would be so nervous to risk this not going through in time for the wedding. Is there a requirement that a date must be set for the new wedding first or something? I honestly don't understand and am asking for education.

There are canon lawyers? Why would a church need a lawyer to defend, arbitrate, or prosecute parishioners of a church? Is that not the literal opposite of what Jesus called for?

Sorry this is off topic, but I saw that in @Nonna's post and it stopped me dead.

Whatever you decide to do, do it because you want it.

And whatever you decide not to, don't not do it because someone else may try and stop you.

If that makes sense.

In my heart it does.

It can be done, I have seen it and lived it.

So my friend was able to get married in the Catholic Church to someone who was not catholic (I think he was Protestant or of a similar denomination), but I'm fairly certain her marriage wasn't "recognized" by the church. So I don't think they had a full mass (couldn't attend the wedding). I may have misunderstood her situation then, but maybe this is something that can be done at your church as well? I feel like a lot of my friends who are catholic and married non Catholics still got married in the church, just not the whole shebang.

O&S- FH was sick when we saw Spotlight. You're totally right that it's not just the Catholic church (or any church) that has these problems though.

Since FH and I talked through these issues early in our relationship even before we were engaged, I was mostly worried it was going to upset FH's mom when we said we weren't getting the church involved in our marriage. She was and has been completely understanding.

Seriously, it is NOT the first time that the church has dealt with situations like this. Just go through the steps and the Tribunal will handle it.

Going off what @Sarah said... you can ask all you want to people you know or online, you can also read an infinite amount of articles but this decision is between you, FH and the church. You'll only get definitive answers by going through the process so I wish you the best of luck and I hope you follow your heart!

@Rachel Canon lawyers are simply trained in the laws of the church. They're not prosecuting parishioners. Many of them work on the Tribunal which handles annulments as advocates.

@LillyBean "why did you set a date and start booking vendors (I'm assuming the booking vendors part, I know) before this process was over? I would be so nervous to risk this not going through in time for the wedding. Is there a requirement that a date must be set for the new wedding first or something"

-Since the engagement, I wanted to be married in that particular church. We finally found a reception venue and found out the available dates for both and made sure they were both open during the period that we wanted. That particular church allows you to "save the date" as long as you put in a deposit, even though you haven't completed the preparations (not all churches do). Those are the only vendors I booked. I thought that's what was supposed to be done. I had no idea this was all part of the process of the Catholic Church because I didn't think his previous marriage was even recognized since it didn't happen in church AND he was never baptized Catholic. I thought it was going to be easier than it was so you can imagine how I felt when I just found all this out yesterday after meeting with the priest on how to start our preparations... we can't even start until the annulment is complete.

I am wondering if the priest knew he might be able to go the Pauline route.

That usually goes a bit faster, there is little to investigate, only requires the tribunal meetings).

Also see if they would be willing to do the pre marriage stuff (meetings, pre Cana, etc) while the process of annulment is taking place. I don't see why you have to wait until the annulment is complete to get counseled when a couple theoretically can go at any time and get marriage counseling.

@Nonna I'm looking up the Petrine/Pauline privilege and am feeling a glimmer of hope! FH was baptized Baptist and I find some articles listing that he has to be baptized Catholic and others saying "of a Christian community."

Where are you located (if you care to say)?

@Nonna Born and raised in Hawaii. FH was baptized in a Korean Baptist church in Kentucky.

Http://catholichawaii.org/media/645959/pauline-privilege.pdf

Maybe get in touch with them [808] 203-6766 ? WWW.CATHOLICHAWAII.ORG

Ahhh ok, Malei. I wasn't sure of the proceedings. I hope you've gotten advice here that works for you. Good luck!