panic

You mentioned that one of the big points of frustration is feeling like you didn't get a proper explanation of what sacraments are, and that's why the priest's last minute refusal to marry you at this time is so hurtful. I'm not Catholic but I have enough Catholic friends that I have a general idea of what the sacraments are, plus I just attended a friend's Catholic mass wedding this weekend so this is all fresh in my mind. Here are a couple of websites I found that might shed some light on this.

https://www.catholic4waukesha.org/sj-sacraments.cfm

Marriage

The Church has a rich tradition on sacramental marriage and covenantal union. The Old Testament authors write of God making a covenant with the chosen people and promising them that they will never be forsaken. The New Testament authors write of Jesus as the new covenant and compare the relationship of Jesus with the Church to the relationship of a husband and wife.

The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership for the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring.

Matrimony, or Marriage, like Holy Orders, is a sacrament that consecrates for a particular mission in building up the Church. It is seen as a sign of the love between Christ and the Church, which is established between spouses in a permanent and exclusive bond, sealed by God. The Sacrament gives couples the grace they need to attain holiness in their married life and for responsible acceptance and upbringing of their children.

Holy Matrimony is a sacrament, administered by the couple themselves, with a priest or deacon as a witness of the church. We strive to enable couples to develop a beautiful and permanent relationship through an understanding of their own strengths and weaknesses. Due to the need for adequate preparation, marriage arrangements should be made at least six (6) months in advance. The parish will assist couples in preparing for marriage through an instructional program concentrating on a deeper awareness of self, sexuality, and the sacramentality of marriage.

https://www.hcc-nd.edu/receiving-sacraments-becoming-catholic/

Holy Matrimony

This sacrament is the sacred covenant forged between a man and a woman which establishes a permanent partnership of their whole lives. Ordered toward their own well being and the procreation and education of children, it is a mutual surrendering of oneself to one’s spouse and to God. More than anything else, the spouse one chooses determines the direction and future of one’s life.

A big part of the sacrament of marriage is that you promise to accept children into your lives to grow the Catholic Church, and that you will raise your children as Catholic. You are also promising to devote yourselves to each other and to devote your marriage to God. I'm guessing that the priest felt that your marriage would not do this, and that you were not going to have a God-centered marriage or family (and honestly, why would you if you aren't Catholic or Christian?). This sounds incredibly frustrating because you were told that your pre-cana retreat was appropriate for interfaith couples, but I'm reading between the lines and guessing that the only interfaith couples that this church is okay with marrying are couples where they are still promising that their marriage and family will follow the Catholic belief system and be focused on God from here on out. I think at this point you should find another church or ceremony site ASAP, and one where their pastor/priest/officiant is fully comfortable marrying an interfaith couple.

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Gottcha. I would still talk to the priest, unless you were not baptized in any Christian church, about doing a ceremony without the mass. Our church offers three options, only one of them has a mass with communion. Good luck.

See, here are the problems with the sacrament definition:

1. The priest specifically said he wouldn't make us promise to raise any kids Catholic.

2. I'm going to be 36 on our wedding day. Kids would be great. ...If they happen.

3. We did the whole precana thing. FILs spent a chunk of change to send us to the weekend-long one, and it was an UTTER FIASCO. It was just so poorly run, that even though there were 2 non-Christians there (myself included), at no point did anyone sit us down and walk us through what in tarnation was going on/what everything meant. So, I ended up much further lost and frustrated than before. (...FTR, I was super opposed to the weekend long version. I didn't feel it would be helpful, because I generally do poorly Weekend Intensive situations. As per usual, I was right.)

4. As someone who is non-Christian, that definition is never going to be able to apply to me. The priest shared previous interfaith marriages he had done with us. So.......... what's different with us? Why don't we qualify?

We're reaching out, frantically, to any other spaces. We're in NYC, and we had budgeted for the church, so we're running into cost issues, not to mention... we're 3 1/2 months out. A lot of places are booked. I'm just SO mad at the priest right now. He had multiple opportunities to reach out to us to say this, but he made us wait until we were in his office, 3 1/2 months out, to break the news. He even PUT US OFF a few weeks ago. (Granted, it *was* Holy Week, but... we spent 20 minutes in his office yesterday. 20 minutes for him to tell us, "no.")

What's worse is that FILs are HUGE in this church. They told us they didn't care if it was a Catholic ceremony or not, but... I mean, it's their community.

...Oh, and it looks like I lost my checkbook somewhere between home, the church, and work.

I just ate a third of a pint of Ben and Jerry's, because STRESS.

If you fiance is set on having a traditional Christian ceremony but you both have issues with the dogma and politics of Catholicism. I would recommend reaching out to an Episcopal Church in your area. The Episcopal Church's rites and sacraments are performed almost identically to that of the Catholic Church; however, it is far more progressive and tends to be more in-line with modern morals and politics. The Episcopal Church embraces interfaith marriages and only requires one partner to be baptised in any Christian church.

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What about another church, like a Lutheran, Protestant, or Presbyterian church? They are usually a lot more relaxed than the Catholic church.

My FH is Catholic and I am Lutheran. Our ceremony is going to be at my Church and the pastor will be officiating. Originally my FH wanted to have the pastor and a priest officiate. He talked to the priest and I guess he is not willing to do the ceremony at my Lutheran Church. What we can do is go to the priest when we get back from our honeymoon and he will bless the marriage.

Rebecca I am SO sorry this happened to you! I remember reading your terrible experience with Pre-cana. I am catholic as is fh and I am still nervous that we might not get the approval. We are 1.5 years out and we're doing precana before the priest meets with us and I'm worried we will encounter the same situation as you.

Honestly, I think you need to let your FH deal with his feelings on his own (be supportive, but let him process on his own since it's his religion). But I think this may be a blessing in disguise for you.

I imagine the priest would still do the civil ceremony without you both receiving the sacrament of marriage (we have a name for this service but idk what it is). But I wouldn't recommend that. You have had issues from day 1 and getting married in the church isn't what YOU want. Talk to FH and see if he can get on board with having a civil/religious ceremony but not in the Catholic Church. I understand that will be hard for him to accept, but this is YOUR marriage as well. What is your comfort level is important.

I don't know the whole situation or the priests opinion, but he may sense your issues with the church and that might be his resistance. Especially since he is okay with you marrying but not receiving the sacrament.

Again, I am SO sorry this has been such a struggle and stressor for you. Wishing you and FH all the best

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THIS. Your last paragraph is what I was trying to say, but you said it WAY better lol

It’s okay! Try not to stress that much! Has he given you a reason why? Also, did you have any other back up ideas before you choose him?

Girl, I’ve been there! We had a priest turn us down too but because we are gay.

Keep looking, he just isn’t the right one. Sounds like he sucks to be honest. Who does that 3.5 months before the wedding

The right one is out there somewhere and it will be perfect! Keep looking! There’s a reason for this 💗

Side note: Another win for Catholicism. 😂

Our good friend has agreed to be our officiant, which is great.

Now we just need a venue so I can order our invitations. Which is what is really pissing me off, because I wanted to order them 2 weeks ago, but didn't because I wasn't sure of the priest. ...who refused to meet with us until Monday.


Please don't suggest other Christian churches. I am not Christian, so if the Catholic church won't do it, we're not interested. FH is totally on board with the civil ceremony. He seems to think the priest will ok us for the convocation or whatever it is in a year. I have one reaction to that: NOPE. 1, I don't think any of our issues are going to change, as outlined above, and 2, I warned FH this was the likely outcome given my faith background, I tried really hard for him, and we got told no with no regard for our timing. So. I'm done and am unlikely to even go back for the holiday masses.

Thank you for the support, all. If you hear of any NYC non religious spaces available for August 24 of this year... tag me!