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Savvy October 2020

Am i being Selfish / Wrong

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Margo, on January 23, 2020 at 11:48 AM

My fiancée and I got engaged last May (2019) and for his proposal it was extremely important he include his son (from 1st marriage) in the proposal.

We wanted / want to plan our wedding date around one of his son’s school breaks, at the time he had 2 weeks in the fall, 2 at X-mas and 2 in the Spring. We were aiming for the fall -
Our first couple vacation was in Maine during October when the sunrise is seen first on the eastern seaboard / USA. We fell in love with Cadillac Mountain and were sure that was the location.
Mid summer we hinted to family we were aiming for fall. Sunrise wedding and possibly Maine. Scoffs came from many... His mother a cruise Junkie stated she hoped it would line up with a cruise. Followed by Maine in October? So plans for Maine quickly diminished.
We vacationed on Sanibel Island in FL and thought that could work, but it brought back many feelings for me (My first fiancée, 20+ years ago and I planned our wedding there, however he passed away before we could marry).
Finally in the last few weeks we thought about Miami Beach or Key West... East Coast, Sunrise... sounds like it could work. I begin the planning / research, etc and the ex-wife texts... Can we take the son during Fall Break (yes, we didn’t tell her our plans) - Sure we say, and he adds this is perfect as we are planning our wedding that Saturday and would like to have son miss school the day before (btw, school changed calendar, now 1 week in fall, 1 week tgiving, 2 weeks Xmas, and 2 spring weeks) - she agrees to let him skip school (btw - it’s January and we’re 8 months into the planning phase) The date we’ve chosen is symbolic 10.10.20 - we did not choose our date by the day of the week. Later in the evening we receive a text from ex who is now “concerned” over the date as it MAY (or may NOT) interfere with their 9 y/o’s POSSIBLE football championship. We explained that the date was symbolic and we knew it could be a factor however a 10y/o 4th grade football is not going to set precedence on our wedding day. Silence.. 2 days of silence.... Oh yeah she took her son out of school to attend her great uncles 90th bday on a school day. So 2days after the initial contact, we get a text, “I’ve been thinking....” continuing on that we could choose “any other Saturday” and we’re being “selfish” to make son miss his football game (Did I mention this is a POSSIBILITY of a football game assuming his team wins playoffs) ends the conversation to say we are being ridiculous. (I should also mention when she asked us to keep him for fall break it was stating she had bought tickets to Spain leaving that Sunday or Monday and should also mention that she added in this thread.... “I told my BF if it was the 1st two weekends of October, I would not be going to Spain because of football” We explained to her that we would talk with Son and explain situation as well as talk to coach in JULY and explain we’re getting married and son could miss last game if it came to it. 2 more days pass.... Only to get a text which states.....”Have you changed the date yet” To which we did not respond, but she did keep her son from being able to talk to his dad that evening. My fiancée and I are now struggling... with each other, with everything. My emotions running on high (I’ve experienced this before with my first fiancee and wedding planning - except then it was his mother who had to choose the date because our dates did not fit “well” into her schedule. I can say that there was nothing but dread leading up to our day that never happened. And here I am again, having to accommodate for a hypothetical situation that may or may not occur. Am I wrong, selfish for wanting the date I chose? A date we felt was special to us and would accommodate the entire remainder of the family.
If I change dates - she winsIf I don’t she makes things miserable and - she wins
I should mention that she divorced him at his lowest point in life during a medical crisis and she took away his son. It was not until he and I met (3 years after their divorce) that he was able to fully rebuild a full-time relationship with his son - even if he lives 700 miles away. My fiancee is now happy and healthy and striving, but every chance she gets she tears him down.
Is she really looking out for her son’s POSSIBLE championship football game or is she jealous and just trying to make our lives miserable? And does she have unresolved feelings?
Thanks for your thoughts.... Lost

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42 Comments

Dedicated October 2019
KAREN · on January 23, 2020 at 2:46 PM
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Glad to hear you get him at some times (and not at all as many people deal with, unfortunately).

I'm glad you're taking her to court, as it seems incredibly unfair and biased. I know it's hard, but really try to be kind to her (and about her, especially in front of your stepson). It really does make a world of difference. My son's mother likes me better than my husband (although they have a history and we don't, so it could be that).

I would say present it to her and tell her that you've been planning this all along and your stepson is aware of the situation and has expressed interest in going. You understand the importance of this potential game, but this is a rare opportunity for him that is a guarantee, whereas the game is only a potential event and that it would mean a lot to ALL of you if he were there, not just you and your husband but also your stepson and your respective families. She has to realize that your families are his, too. My parents and siblings have taken my kid on like their own grandson/nephew seamlessly, and would have been absolutely heartbroken if he weren't at our wedding (let alone my husband's family who has been involved since day one).
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 23, 2020 at 2:47 PM
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Karen, I appreciate what you’ve said. And our relationship with her was always great. It’s only been since we got engaged that her attitude towards us has gotten worse.

Example - My FH flew to see his son on Halloween and I was flying in on weekend. While I was there we decided to buy a car (unexpected, but we’re car shopping) - FH told her we’d be late getting son back as we bought car and timeline changed - she was OK with it. About an hour after meeting time she called and while on speaker phone she belittled FH for being late and son heard conversation. Son in tears suddenly rushed to get us to leave. When we got to her place we apologized profusely and son even tried to explain, she continued to belittle my FH. We opted to be the better and just apologize and leave. She had no plans for son other than playing with neighbor. This coming 3 weeks after sabotaging her son’s and our vacation plans, and the again over Christmas.
I had the utmost respect for her but as of late, I’m struggling. But I ALWAYS tell son that whatever we plan has to be approved by his mom, so he knows that we always go with her OK on almost everything we do that involves him.
She was fine with our wedding plans until she had time to think, then it just went bad and every 2 days since it’s “have you changed your mind yet” - And we’ve said we’re going to talk to son first!
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 23, 2020 at 2:51 PM
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That’s what we were afraid of all along. She’s found a way to sabotage all of our plans since we got engaged.
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Expert October 2021
Vannesa · on January 23, 2020 at 2:55 PM
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Honestly, you have to be the one to put your foot down. FH doesn’t have custody of his kid either since she took him away from us and it’s hard to get custody back for the father. If your son doesn’t care too much about his game then I don’t see why you need to change the date. I get sports are great for children I played them growing up as well but a 4th grade maybe championship isn’t reason enough to just completely change a day where everyone else is in an agreement to. It’s your life as well and I get his kids may come first but in the end your marriage should come over her being a complete drama queen since she’s just showing how bitter she is.
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 23, 2020 at 3:13 PM
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Well, because she asked us to take him that weekend / week it was now going to be our weekend. (See my other posts for our custody agreement)

We’ve tried to explain how important it is to us to have him there and this date (not day) was chosen with a significant meaning. To which her replies have been your making your son sacrifice a game or we’re being selfish. Now we’re getting constant texts with “have you changed your mind about the date yet” - we are (have been) planning to talk to him in person this weekend (he’s coming to us).
My fear is she’s already planted a seed in his head to be against this. As of late she’s been really trying to put him in the middle of making decisions. And sadly he hasn’t been mature enough to understand what he’s deciding on and feels like he’s hurting someone to just answers with “I don’t care” (Example - in the past 4 years she’s asked us to take him her birthday weekend. This past year we asked her if she wanted us to take him because we wanted him to join us in a volunteering opportunity with the Gary Sinise foundation. She said she would check with him as they have plans... and he felt GUILTY for being forced to choose. We didn’t want that and told her and him that because in the past she’s had plans and needed a sitter we thought we’d offer, we definitely did not want to make him choose mother vs father. - He was in tears! And we’re trying to tell him, hey, it’s no big deal- we made this offer to your mom because of the past. We ALWAYS want to see you and it can wait, ultimately she decided to let him come to us because she did not take us into consideration for the remainder of the month and made plans for every weekend, none of which included a visit to us. After that incident we told her we NEVER wanted to do that to son again. All visitation had to be arranged by us and communicated to him afterwards because hurting him is not an option. Since then, she’s done two other times.
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 23, 2020 at 3:16 PM
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Thanks Vanessa! Those are my thoughts / feelings too.
She tried to compare his 4th grade football to FH high school championship tennis match that he was forced to miss because of his mother’s job.
She never played, I did and understand, But I was raised family comes first.
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Dedicated October 2019
KAREN · on January 23, 2020 at 3:30 PM
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Do you think she still has feelings for your FH, or is she just being spiteful?

I have to imagine it's really hard to allow another person (especially a maternal or paternal figure) into your child's life. My husband's ex used to insist my stepson call her "Mama *Her Name*" and his actual mother had mad beef with that, which I honestly get. I've made it known to her that I am not his mother and I will never be his mother but I am grateful to be able to be his stepmom and be there for him. I've also spoken at length with him about what a stepmom is. And I've told her that if something god forbid happened to her, that I would make sure he never forgot her but I would step up to the plate. Those conversations were uncomfortable but worth it.
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 23, 2020 at 3:49 PM
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Until recently I would say there were no feelings, now I’m not so sure. In fact, I questioned that today after her text to FH again about changing our date. I honestly wonder is this really all about a football game? Surely we’re not getting this heated over a 4th grade ball game. Or is it that FH is finally happy and moving on?

I’ve had the same / similar conversation with her- I’ve made it very clear that I love him like my own, but I’m not her and would never take her place or even try.

Thanks for letting me vent and giving great conversation
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Dedicated October 2019
KAREN · on January 23, 2020 at 4:20 PM
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If it's been as long as it seems, I'd be more inclined in thinking that it's resentment and not lingering feelings. Like my sister getting upset that my brother (younger than her, older than me) got married before her. That was *her* time and she deserved it first, dang nabit! Obviously ridiculous, but people get like that!

Of course! I wish you luck with the wedding and the custody. I hope both go smoothly!
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Super March 2020
Watts · on January 23, 2020 at 4:54 PM
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I'll be completely honest. As someone who works with kids, I do think the championship is a big deal. If he is only in the sport because he's forced to, that's different. If he enjoys it, then it's important. A championship is something that they work towards, they focus on, they learn from. These types of things are actually extremely important during their developmental ages. By acting like it doesn't matter you are essentially telling the kid that his effort doesn't matter, his hard work does not matter, his feelings don't matter. You're essentially telling him that you don't care if he worked towards that goal for however long. Your wedding really shouldn't be putting the kid in a predicament where he either let's you down or let's himself (and in his head, his team) down.
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Super February 2020
Jeanie · on January 23, 2020 at 6:44 PM
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The beginning of October sounds awful early for championship games..... it definitely is where I live. That usually happens around Thanksgiving. Maybe look into that before moving forward with anything else. If she’s flat out lying, you will know much better how to proceed. Good luck.
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Dedicated October 2021
Elizabeth · on January 23, 2020 at 9:14 PM
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I dont see why you have to change anything for anyone other than yourself or your future husband. Why does it matter if he has a possibility of a game? Its a date chosen months in advance, something that holds meaning for you. It's a big day for you and i doubt when this child is older, be it 2 years or 10 years from now, he is going to still be holding a grudge for possibly missing one football game. I dont think anyone should effect how you plan YOUR wedding. It's ONE day that is about celebrating the love of the two of you and you becoming his family, their family. Dont let them make you change your mind if it is important to the both of you.
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 24, 2020 at 7:14 AM
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He’s 10 years old, their season starts the first weekend of August. The last game I usually the first weekend in October (maybe 2nd based on this year’s calendar) - We always knew this was a possibility, but our selection of dates is actually very limited if we want son involved.

Knowing her, and his school schedule- we can only really choose Spring or Fall break. Because she would NEVER allow him to miss school for our wedding, or have a Christmas wedding or even Thanksgiving (quite honestly I don’t want it then either).
I don’t want (currently 9 y/o) son to HAVE to choose a (POSSIBLE) football game versus his father's wedding. That in my opinion is undue weight for a child to bear. And having ex FORCE us to either accommodate a hypothetical situation or make son decide is selfish on her part.
He’s 9, not 19 (or even 12) he has no idea the importance of this decision. I don’t agree with her on this, but I’m doing it because it’s what she wants. If we didn’t want him to be a part of the wedding, we would’ve picked ANY other weekend. We picked this date because we found significance related to our new life.
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 24, 2020 at 7:22 AM
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I agree with you, and that’s what I have tried to say. But it’s followed with basically now harassing texts about us changing our date. It’s only been a week and I’m already worn down (Mind you this comes 4 months after trying to find a suitable location for happiness of the remainder of family)

I don’t think a 9 y/o should decide the fate of his role in our wedding date. Because quite honestly, 15 minutes after he decides, he WILL forget all about it. And it’s a hypothetical!!!! There is ZERO guarantee he will be in a game past the last weekend in September.
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Dedicated October 2021
Elizabeth · on January 25, 2020 at 9:09 AM
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What does your FH say about this?
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 25, 2020 at 9:26 AM
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We feel the same.

We both played sports as children and we were raised that sports are important, but family always comes first. But we’re talking about a hypothetical game and 4th grade football, not a game that will resonate any long term memories. A parents wedding is something he will remember forever. (He has zero recollection of his game this past October, but he remembers the family vacation that followed because he went shelling with his dad)
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Expert May 2010
Theresa · on January 25, 2020 at 3:29 PM
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I realize that you're desperately trying to justify this to yourself, but I have some trouble believing that he has "zero recollection of his game this past October." He's 9, he's in elementary school, he's perfectly capable of remembering things. It sounds to me like he's been put in the center of everything and he's trying to make everyone happy by telling them what they want to hear.
The "hypothetical game" may in fact be important to him if he has to opportunity to play in it. Kids don't work toward something like that a whole season only to miss the excitement of it once it arrives. He'll also have coaches and teammates that will be counting on him, and forcing him to choose will just be putting him in the middle of another situation.
You can, and obviously will, do what you want to do, but I feel badly for him, being squarely between you and Mom and everyone.
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Dedicated October 2021
Elizabeth · on January 25, 2020 at 4:16 PM
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If you and your FH are of the same mindset theres no need to stress it. Do what you want it's your day
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Super March 2020
Watts · on January 25, 2020 at 6:01 PM
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Absolutely agree. As someone who works with children I can guarantee at age 9 he will remember and will be hurt. The fact that there is zero talk of doing what's right for him in this post is surprising and disappointing. It's all focused on the ex-wife vs the new wife. I am very disappointed in all parents in this scenario. I feel very badly for this kid.
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Savvy October 2020
Margo · on January 25, 2020 at 6:31 PM
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First of all, you’re making assumptions just as the ex. Secondly I ALWAYS consider sons feelings before I do anything that includes him.

What I failed to remember until TODAY, was that when we planned THIS DATE, I did take into consideration every single detail. I checked his school schedule, compared previous years and the Today (which shame on me for trusting ex) I contacted the coach. And if I had trusted myself, my planning before the planning, and not listened to HER NEGATIVITY then I would’ve remembered that based on last year’s schedule his HYPOTHETICAL championship game would actually be the week before our wedding.

So, I want to thank everyone for their advice, words, and criticism/ judgments- but our wedding date is no longer an interference with his hypothetical game because I did prep for it back in September when we picked our date.
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