Addressing envelopes - who goes first?

I would definitely be offended if someone addressed us as Mr. and Mrs. FH's first and last name. I'm not just an extension of him, and I don't appreciate not having my name mentioned. He's not more important than me, so there's no reason to have his first name and not mine.

@Kate there was someone in another department at my last job who did that! He signed his emails "John Smith, BA". I'm like, you work at a university, everyone here has degrees, most of us have advanced degrees, and there is literally no need for any of us to list any of them. I wanted to sign all my emails back to him with all my degrees listed out just to be spiteful.

I was taught woman name first so the man's is by his last.

If she kept her own last then him first and her on a separate line with (and children if they have them)

Theresa that's so interesting, I've always been taught that married couples always go on the same line regardless of their last names.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the Mrs. HisFirstName HisLastName. And honestly while I totally understand that it's a traditional etiquette thing, I think this is one of those areas where it's really hard to gauge who is offended by it when you send out invitations, so it's hard to say, "Everyone I sent them to was fine with it." Speaking for myself, I would probably be pretty annoyed about being addressed like that, but I don't think I would bring it up with a friend/family member because it feels petty and there are so many other hills to die on.

I know this is a breach in etiquette, but I dropped the titles altogether. Since I wanted to include both partners first names, I was having trouble fitting all the text on one line. It might not be as formal but it looks cleaner, especially in my own handwriting.

I have an interesting situation where my female cousin is married to a person that prefers they/them pronouns. I don't even know if there is a mr/mrs/ms equivalent for that so I just put (cousin's) first name/last name and Jane Doe.

Anyone heard of anything different to do in that situation?

@ Christy websters just added something for this. The correct version for someone who prefers to not be gendered is MX for a non gendered Honorific

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/mx-gender-neutral-title

Just chatted with our editor at GayWeddings.com and she agreed on using Mx as the gender neutral alternative!

We also have a more specific guide from GayWeddings.com for addressing same-sex couples:

http://gayweddings.com/address-wedding-invitation-sex-couple/

The purpose of etiquette is to prevent offending someone. The proper way to address someone has changed substantially over the decades because women are no longer merely appendages of their husbands. A woman is her own person.

I defied my FMIL and wrote "Mr. & Mrs. John and Jane Smith" for all of my guests but allowed hers to be "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith." I only used "Mrs. John Smith and guest" for the two widows over 90 who prefer it.

Anyone who insists on using the traditional addressing rules when they know the addressee dislikes it is being tremendously rude. I don't think people truly understand how much the identity of a woman is erased after marriage in this style of addressing. Any formal correspondence would be written as "Mrs. John Smith." There are no exceptions to this. Aka your birthday card should be addressed to "Mrs. John Smith" even if the husband is not an intended recipient. The only way a woman gets to use her own first name with "Mrs." is after divorce.

Hardly anyone follows this anymore because it comes across as rude to most people. This is on my mind because just last week my sister got a birthday card from our aunt addressed to "Mrs. John Smith." My sister has told me I care too much about the "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith" addressing and that it's no big deal but boy was she salty about that birthday card. There is no difference and it's the same etiquette/grammar rule.

I put the person I am closest to first, except for married couples with the same last name. I don't understand why it is a question about what to do with same sex couples, but it clearly highlights the bullshit double standard of how men and women are addressed. Doesn't it sound shitty to say Mike is the "girl" in the relationship so he should not get his first name on the invitation?

Put both people's first names on the envelopes and the only order rule to follow is "Dr." Or "the Honorable" goes first.

Jo - For both same sex couples and unmarried couples, I put the name of the person I was closer to first.

Two of my married friends who are female have PhDs. For the first, she outranks her husband's Master's degree, so they were addressed " Dr. Jane and Mr. John Smith." The other friend's husband also had a PhD, and I think the Crane & Co guide must have instructed me to still put her name first. They were addressed as the "Drs. Jane and John Smith." She loved it.

Kate - the Crane & Co says you can do either for widows and to err on the side of what a particular widow prefers. For all of the widows on our list, I used their first names "Mrs. Jane Smith," since that's what they go by in all other situations. If I'd seen them sign their names "Mrs. John Smith" or use that on their return address label, then I think that would mean they'd prefer Mrs. Husband's Full Name, but they don't. I see them regularly address themselves as "Mrs. Jane Smith."

For married couples, I used both first names. Husband went first, except for the PhD situations.

@Kate

It is not necessary to use "Esq." to address a lawyer or judge. You wouldn't add on CPA or MBA for someone. Judge is not the most appropriate title. If an elected position it should be "the Honorable John Smith." If appointed and in office, you could use "Judge."

Also, you addressed the widows as divorcées. If you insist on the outdated addressing rules you cannot pick and choose.

Kirackle, I certainly don't think anyone implied that for addressing an invite to a same sex couple one picks who is the "man" and who is the "woman" in the relationship. My question was to find out whether people chose who went first based on the more traditional alphabetical listing, or based on which person in the couple they were closest to, or if they felt it was most appropriate to call the couple and ask them to choose how they wanted to be listed (assuming the couple has different last names and no one has a title which dictates they need to be listed first).

Actually for pastors you should use "Rev." for Reverend! "Rev. and Mrs." or "The Reverends" if they are both pastors Father for priests!

We did who we know best. I feel like that's how we address them when we say their names together. (Ex. We are going to Jane and John's tonight vs the opposite) it felt weird to flip it and why should his name be first just because he's a man, right??

So here's what I learned after much research:

1. If they are married they get an "and" in between the names and they are on the same line whether it's the same last name or not

Examples:

Mr. John Smith and Mr. James Doe

or

Ms. Jane Doe and Ms. Jill Smith

or

Mr. John Smith and Ms. Jill Doe

2. If they are not married but live together they should go on two separate lines

Examples:

Mr. John Smith

Mr. James Doe

or

Ms. Jane Doe

Ms. Jill Smith

or

Mr. John Smith

Ms. Jane Doe

3. The person you know better goes first or in the case you know them equally as well either order is okay

Also @Kate and @WWLynnie that's not always the case because not all pastors are Rev.

Reverend relates to a formal title or ordination depending on the church. Plus in some churches pastors may even deserve more formal titles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reverend

@Kate my cousin's husband is a Pastor in an evangelical church, but he's not formally ordained so he doesn't get to use Reverend. So trust me I get it. She's still likely Rev. in the Lutheran church, but it might be worth some quick research if it becomes one of your obsessions. (I was obsessed with getting everything addressed right)

Back when I lived in the Middle East, once in while I'd meet someone who had H.R.H. or very rarely H.R.M. in front of their names. Mostly the kids at the American school I went to and their parents. I really wish I stayed in touch with them more, because I would LOVE to send an invite to Her Royal Highness or His Royal Majesty. Middle Eastern royal families are large and sprawling (due to the whole 4 wives, 4 kids per wife thing) so it wasn't uncommon to have a few in your social circle.

Oh very weird! I'm a double (ordained) pastor's kid and am not familiar with how to handle the address for a non-ordained church leader.

My dad has a doctorate in theology and I wanted to put him on the invitation as "The Reverend Doctor" but he shut it down

So happy to hear about #3 Sara&L!!!

Honestly I had an easier time figuring out titles than I did the actual full names of our guests! I didn't realize just how many friends we have who use nicknames or middle names, and more than once had to ask what people's "real names" were!