Em Kaman
Beginner June 2021

moh refusing to respect my safety/fmil's safety (covid & cancer)

Em Kaman, on June 4, 2021 at 3:45 PM Posted in Etiquette and Advice 0 17
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TL;DR: My MOH is making everything all about her needs, is unvaccinated, and gets mad at me cause I want to wear a mask around her so I don't accidentally kill my FMIL who has cancer. Getting sick of antics and everyone wants me to demote her and give the role to different BM who 100% deserves it.

So this all starts back in July of 2019 since I got engaged then. My friend and I were constantly hanging out (by hanging out I mean literally just sitting and doing nothing for hours) but we were still good and she was learning to be a new mom and was being fairly responsible. We hung out so much (mainly her and I but also my fiancé) and she sort of shoved herself into the MOH role and immediately started planning things as soon as she learned of the engagement. We were thinking of some time in August 2020 as the original wedding date so I officially asked her to be MOH in December 2019 after she got out of the hospital (physically was fine). Later continuing the do nothing hang outs for hours on end while I play with the baby and occasionally chat. Then my new job and March 2020 hits. I get super sick and then lose my job. I was already a high risk person. My fiancé, the grandmother we live with, my other grandparents, my dad, and step brother are also high risk. So since I was sick and then after, I wanted to respect social distancing and guidelines. She did but didn't on the other hand...covid hit and she got super lonely since at the time I was the only one hanging out with her. She went wild basically and started doing extremely reckless things: continuing to send her 1 yr old daughter to daycare through the whole pandemic even when not working, going on dates with random people, hanging at other people's houses, went to one of the random date's apartment by herself without letting anyone who could help know where she was if she got murdered or something, it goes on. Anyway the entire time she had been getting mad at me and begging to hang out but I said I couldn't for obvious reasons. Eventually it got so bad that she was mad that I wouldn't just let her tag along when I went to see my dad (they hadn't met and she's never been to his house before) "why can't I come too?" Basically trying to invite herself. I did say it was kind of the last straw cause I can see my dad (he's been being safe) and it's family and told her to stop begging and demanding. I told her I wish we could hang out again but at the time it wasn’t possible. Covid was in full swing, I gotta think of safety first. I never went out besides family and 1 friend who's been safe cause her mom is high risk (who basically has the MOH everything except the empty title which she knows just to avoid fights with friend) During that time, the wedding got moved to December 2020 and then June 2021. I went dark on social media for months after a fight with her being irresponsible (why I couldn't hang, weird spending and complaining that she couldn't afford the cheap dress that her and the others agreed upon for months but $300 purse that's over 2x the price for the dress and piercings are ok, etc) I couldn't take the stress and she kept trying to hunt me down when I needed a break from the antics. Eventually we started talking a little bit again but she didn't like that I moved my "life" to a personal server so she barely communicated. Other bridesmaids haven't had any issues and Vaccines rolled out. Fiancé and I got our first shots beginning of May. Some other college friends got theirs so my fiancé and I had more of a safe group to be around. She's seemed sort of jealous but she got a new job and kept busy but radio silent to me and bridal party (oddly texting my fiancé occasionally). My other friend the whole time has been chill, helpful, and really deserves the full role at this point. A few weeks ago, we learned my FMIL has been diagnosed with breast, bone, and ovarian cancer that hadn't been caught early due to covid and it metastasized. We hadn't really planned a honeymoon yet but we decided to use it to go see her since she's across the country. So since then even though we will be mostly immune to covid in a couple weeks as of yesterday, we decided to take extremely strict precautions for ourselves cause even if vaccinated, we still feel we need to be extra careful around his mother. I've hung out a couple times in person with the MOH and her daughter while masked. During all this, she's also tried to get me to pay for her things that I can't afford since I'm paying for the wedding myself and I've been jobless. At that time since she's working with kids, she was qualified way before me to get vaxxed and hasn't. I told her we'd be able to hang out again if she was since she was craving it. Also she knows about the cancer and I've expressed how serious it is. So fast forward to yesterday, after some really chaotic and planning for the bachelorette party, I realized I forgot to ask if she'd gotten vaccinated yet (the rest of the bridal party is fully vaxxed) she said she's still not vaccinated. I was disappointed and I told her that I'd be wearing a mask then. It was agreed that she didn't have to if she didn't want to cause the party's not at my house and I left it up to the BM who's hosting it (who said she didn't have to). As before on the last short hang out (fiancé and I masked but not her) when I asked her about it, we offered to drive her to any appointment for it. I mentioned the j&j one too so then it's a one and done, extra easy with walk ins at a lot of places. She declined and started up the "woe is me" junk again because I was going to wear a mask. Not her. ME. "If you don't want me at the wedding because I'm not vaccinated then say so. I can tell it's a big deal. I'm not trying to be rude but it seems like a big deal so that's why I ask. I love you but I feel like I'm a giant germ." All because I wanna mask up around her so I don't get the possibility of accidentally making my FMIL suffer more because my MOH "wouldn't knowingly put me or anyone else at risk" key here is KNOWINGLY even with some covid being asymptomatically spread. Like I literally just don't wanna accidentally kill my fiancé's mom, he has a good mom unlike me and I don't want him to lose that. The bridal party and family are telling me to either demote my friend or kick her out. I've been so stressed out, I've gotten white hairs at 23! I don’t particularly want to end a friendship but she's driving me and everyone else insane. I want to enjoy the wedding without this stress. And I'm pretty sure once she gets what we had back with the sitting around doing absolutely nothing for 6+ hours, then the friendship will be ok again cause it was good before the pandemic. But now I don’t know and I just don’t want the stress and I'd rather let her be a BM since she did get the outfit and give the full MOH role to the person who deserves it. I just don't know what to do since everyone here says that the friendship will be ruined if I do so. Advice?

17 Comments

Latest activity by Katie, on June 6, 2021 at 5:16 PM
  • M
    VIP January 2019
    Maggie ·
    • Flag

    It's highly likely that "demoting" and "replacing" her will cause irreparable harm to your friendship. But everything you wrote has me wondering why on earth you are interesting in keeping this friendship. I can't see anything positive (from what you've described) that she brings to your life, and nothing but good things if she were gone from it.

    Only you can decide if you genuinely want her in your life or not, but no matter what you do, there's no reason to replace her. Your wedding is this month and your other attendants will still be there and you will still get married whether you have someone called a maid of honor or not.

    • Reply
  • Cool
    Super July 2020
    Cool ·
    • Flag
    It sounds like you aren’t really friends at this point or have much in common anymore. Demoting her is a friendship ender, but it kind of sounds ended either way. She flat out told you she didn’t want to feel like a germ and can opt out of coming. I think you should allow her to do that. I am VERY PRO VAXX but if she - for whatever reason - is choosing not to get it then she’s being fair by letting you know she can stay home.
    • Reply
  • A
    Expert June 2021
    Allie ·
    • Flag

    It sounds like there are several issues going on here, with the most serious and pressing one being that this friend/MOH is not being very respectful of your distancing/masking wishes when you are going to visit a seriously ill and high-risk family member (and I am sorry for your FMIL's diagnosis!). Not to mention that you said you're high-risk yourself. It sounds like you are doing everything in your power to try to keep her safe from covid exposure, and your friend is being sorta combative/dramatic about you simply stating that you yourself would want/need to wear a mask around her? Yikes!

    I don't know that I have any great advice, but I would like to throw out another option.....what if you asked the other friend (currently a BM, but is being awesome and supportive) to be a co-MOH with the existing MOH? Now, this could also upset the existing MOH, but I don't think it would be as upsetting as demoting her would be. You could just explain that you'd really like to have her as a co-MOH alongside the existing MOH, and kinda leave out how much of a pain-in-the-butt the existing MOH has been.

    I wish you the best of luck!!

    • Reply
  • W
    Super September 2020
    Willow ·
    • Flag
    If your concern is covid safety, and you can accept that you are no longer friends, I would pay her back for the dress, kick her out of the party, uninvite her from the wedding, and never look back. I see this as an all or nothing.


    Your bridal party is your nearest and dearest. You don't get to demote an MoH like some employee. Letting her stay a bm because she already has her dress is not a consolation prize.
    What are you getting out of this "friendship"? Do you want her in your wedding photos years later? She sounds toxic, but you're letting her bulldoze you.
    • Reply
  • Carissa
    Dedicated September 2022
    Carissa ·
    • Flag
    By reading your post it seems like everything has been blown out of proportion. I think its important to note that if you read the statistics and research that are now available, asymptomatic spread is virtually zero. Also, if you, FH, and FMIL are vaccinated, then it should be of no concern to you whether MOH is or isn't. Also, are you going out in public? Are you sure every single person at your wedding will be vaccinated? If not, why are you singling out MOH for not being vaccinated when you have no idea who else is or isn't. Just because some people say they are doesn't mean they are- its a lot easier to just say yes they are, rather than deal with judgment if they say no they aren't.


    I think you are out of line asking her if she's vaccinated or offering to take her to an appointment for one. Her medical information is none of your business.
    But she's also out of line by being demanding. It seems to me like both of you are being petty and ridiculous. Is a wedding worth this much drama? I wouldn't think so. Have her pay for what she can afford, but if you are REQUIRING anything of the bridal party, then of course you are obligated to pay for it. I dont think demoting her from MOH to BM is really gonna change anything, especially with the wedding being a month away. All of the planning duties have likely been done, so throwing around demoting seems like a petty, "in your face" thing to do. If it doesn't change anything, then it's a pointless threat. If she's offered to not come and you think you can live with knowing that she wasn't at your wedding (if you do become close again in the future) then go for it. But I personally couldn't live with that.
    • Reply
  • Judith
    Judith ·
    • Flag
    If this ruins a friendship, it is one not worth keeping. Not so many years ago a close friend had burns . For 2 weeks everyone was masked and gowned. Then a friend who lost the outer wall of his abdomen.
    Then a 6 month 2 week preemie. Then a friend with a bad infection after a mastectomy. No one questioned the science of masks and gowns as barriers. No one gave it 2 second thought before taking the stuff and putting it on. Who would want to risk making anything worse for friends or loved ones. ... Now a lot of people have made a political stance of why they won't wear a mask. Each time, they are saying, how I feel is of more value than your baby or grandmother and friend. If their sick infant were in ICU, they would insist on it. But now they are looking at themselves first. Say, your choice. We don't want anyone here who does not care about our family. And close the door.
    • Reply
  • T
    Super April 2021
    Tiger Bride ·
    • Flag
    I mean...you were seeing people last year too. Covid doesn't care if it's family, or your one friend who was "being really safe" because guess what, if you saw that one friend, you also saw your parents, and your parents saw whoever they saw, and those people saw...you get the picture. Your friend probably thinks you're being hypocritical.


    If you're vaccinated you don't need to wear a mask. You shouldn't be bothering her about getting the vaccine if she's decided not to. But you seem to have already decided you don't like her, so..not sure what you're looking for.
    • Reply
  • Michelle
    Devoted August 2021
    Michelle ·
    • Flag

    It sounds like there's much going on here, and admittedly I cannot keep track. But, I think there is a mid-point here, and that's asking your MOH to take a COVID test for her knowledge and yours. You can do this within 3 days of your event, and most venues find 72 hours acceptable, including the CDC travel advisory guidelines for international travelers entering the US. If you cannot accept the legitmacy of the test and continue to push her towards vaccination, then you are inserting yourself into her medical business. Both of you need boundaries. Or accept her option and agree with her that you prefer she stay home. She gave you an out because it clearly gives you stress. Choose whatever option that is less stress, less drama.

    • Reply
  • L
    Lisa ·
    • Flag
    You have zero say as to who gets vaccinated. Zero. Your MOH also point blank asked you about it and hand delivered an opportunity to you to say exactly what was on your mind and remove her from your wedding. What was your response? ???? ????? What was your response?
    You didn’t say just that you “don’t want to kill your fiancé’s mom” ... and yet you are choosing to continue to be around your MOH and your fiancé’s mom/family.
    Drop your MOH and move on or don’t and set boundaries that you are capable of sticking to. Either way, stop harassing your MOH about the vaccination. That is none of your business.
    • Reply
  • Em Kaman
    Beginner June 2021
    Em Kaman ·
    • Flag
    View Quoted Comment
    Personally, I don't see the issue with offering her a ride to get a vaccine since she says she'd need a ride/is too busy. She can't drive and relies on the bus or one of her parents. I've driven her places before. It's not weird or wrong or unusual. I was even at her daughter's birth. I've literally only asked her about the vaccine twice. There's no harrassment. That's all I'm saying on that topic for that.

    She could do a covid test if she wants, but she'll "feel like a germ" and again after offering the ride the main thing is that she's getting insulted that I'm the one wearing the mask. Not her. Everyone at the wedding is going to still be masked, vaccinated or not, and I made it clear to all guests that it was going to be enforced. I already know I can't control other people in many other situations therefore I wear a mask myself and if someone wants to be insulted that I wear a mask then they have issues.

    For the friendship itself, I don't know. It was fine before covid but I don't know quarantine really messed up a lot of people. I'd like to hope it gets back to how it used to be once covid's more taken care of, but I don't know.
    Also it takes 2 weeks after the 2nd shot to be fully vaccinated. I only got the 2nd shot 2 days ago as of posting this reply.
    • Reply
  • S
    Just Said Yes July 2021
    Sam ·
    • Flag
    View Quoted Comment

    What was your reply to your moh when she gave you the opportunity to remove her from the wedding party?

    • Reply
  • Em Kaman
    Beginner June 2021
    Em Kaman ·
    • Flag
    View Quoted Comment
    We didn’t finish the conversation yet because at that point, I knew she'd take anything I'd say the wrong way since it's over text. We're going to continue it tomorrow (as of posting this) in person while I'm masked.
    • Reply
  • S
    Just Said Yes July 2021
    Sam ·
    • Flag
    View Quoted Comment

    “As before on the last short hang out (fiancé and I masked but not her) when I asked her about it, we offered to drive her to any appointment for it. I mentioned the j&j one too so then it's a one and done, extra easy with walk ins at a lot of places. She declined and started up the "woe is me" junk again because I was going to wear a mask. Not her. ME. "If you don't want me at the wedding because I'm not vaccinated then say so. I can tell it's a big deal. I'm not trying to be rude but it seems like a big deal so that's why I ask. I love you but I feel like I'm a giant germ." “

    This didn’t happen over text.

    • Reply
  • Em Kaman
    Beginner June 2021
    Em Kaman ·
    • Flag
    View Quoted Comment
    The first vaccine offer was in person when I was having her pay for her dress aka the "hang out". The current mess (the j&j part of the sentence and rest) was over text. Those are the only 2 times I asked if she wanted a ride to an appointment.
    • Reply
  • Kk
    Devoted October 2021
    Kk ·
    • Flag
    I think it's really important to remember that Covid and quarantine didn't just affect people physical. It majorly affected mental health as well. You said it yourself that she started to struggle mentally. Your post was very critical of her, but did you ever reach out to her to see if she was okay?
    • Reply
  • Em Kaman
    Beginner June 2021
    Em Kaman ·
    • Flag
    View Quoted Comment
    Yes I did often until I couldn't mentally handle it myself with everything that was happening and took a break from her and social media. We started talking again after a couple months of a break.
    • Reply
  • Katie
    Expert August 2021
    Katie ·
    • Flag
    View Quoted Comment
    I agree with this, if she doesn't want to get vaccinated for whatever reason then you need to respect that and stop pressuring her. You say you are visiting your sick mother in law who you don't want to kill. But if you are having a wedding with a bunch of guests rather you have a lot of people or a few how are you going to make sure everyone is vaccinated and are not carrying covid the day of your wedding. Plus even fully vaccinated people can still catch covid. Vaccines only protect those who have been vaccinated.
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