Love over Money

I have a cousin who went through this so I'll take a stab at it. My cousin dated a guy for 4 years who was pursuing a career in semi-pro sports. At first, he was only playing and training part time and barely making enough to support himself. My cousin shared her concerns about his financials and their future, and he got a part time gig at a fast food restaurant to supplement his income. At the time, she had a good job that allowed her to support herself and save and that had a steady career trajectory.


After 3 years, his situation hadn't changed. My cousin asked him if he might consider transitioning to a steadier career, and he became very upset and accused her of being unsupportive. She felt that he wasn't thinking about how he would help support their future family. She was worried about marrying someone who failed to make financial decisions that would give her security.
Eventually, they broke up. She just couldn't be content with his situation. He is still doing the same thing now, 2 years later, eith a new girlfriend. She has a new boyfriend in her career field who shares her views about money.
The money question matters, and it's *good* to be thinking about financial security in a relationship that is progressing towards marriage. Avoiding this issue will just breed conflict and resentment.
I think you need to really think about what you can live with and then have an honest discussion with him about his future plans. Be brave enough to follow where those discussions lead.

If you’re engaged, you need to sit down and have open and honest conversations about goals—financial or otherwise. But keep those conversations and goals just between the two of you. I know it’s hard, but try to leave other peoples opinions out of it because it will only make it worse. You guys are a team of 2.

View Quoted Comment This!! I agree with this statement completely

View Quoted Comment

Hi Leanne,

I understand your point. I would just like to clarify that my dad likes to chime in his concerns consistently so it's pretty difficult to try to tune it out. I do agree about keeping things private because when others are involved it can ruin things. If I am being very honest with myself we've already had this conversation on more than one occasion and it's still concerning me. Which may or may not be a red flag.

I think you definitely have to have a money conversation. My dream is to be a professional playwright and author and my FH is very supportive of that. I am a playwright currently but, one or two festivals a year isn't going to keep me afloat and novel writing is tough. So in the meantime, I got a job using my arts management minor because I know that I can't help contribute to things if I'm in a minimum wage job (not that there is anything wrong with that).

My FH is in computer science so there is already a difference in what each of us contributes and I feel after a while if I just wanted to focus on my dreams he'd feel a little taken advantage of (this of course is not to bash anyone who has that lifestyle but, it wouldn't work for the two of us). You do not want these feelings to come up in 4 years if nothing has changed. I agree with pp that you should sit down and have a conversation about goals and what kind of lifestyle the two of you see yourself having after you get married. Love is important but, sadly love doesn't pay the bills so it's important to be on the same page moneywise.

Def sit down and talk with your FH because your future is important and you both have to be on the same page. For me, my husband and I had to share the same views on: if we want children, finances, where we want to live, etc

Have you considered couple’s counseling? It’s so important to be on the same page for important issues like money and counseling can help you get there.

You say you've had this conversation multiple times...what is your fiance's long term plan? How will he contribute to things like retirement or buying a home, or is he relying on you alone to do that?

It's extremely hard to make it as a writer and nothing else. Unless he ends up with multiple best sellers, most writers have other jobs whether as professors, teachers, copy editors, etc etc. He needs to have realistic goals in the (sorry but very likely) event he is not the next JK Rowling. Your financial goals need to align as far as your ability to, as a unit, buy a house (if that's a goal of yours), raise children (again, if that's what you want), retire by a certain age, etc.

Maybe you will be the primary bread winner and provide the financial stability for the family. He could always be a stay at home dad while pursing his dream. Just because he is male doesn't mean he has to be the primary bread winner. Also, thousands of people live on minimum wage jobs. If his choices are a deal breaker to you, have an honest conversation with him and then make your choices accordingly.

Lastly, if you are an independent adult tell your father to stay out of your relationship and that you no longer want to hear his comments. Then walk away or hang up the phone if he starts. But, it seems to me that your Dad isn't really the problem because I think you agree with him

View Quoted Comment I agree! A counselor can help bridge uncomfortable topics like this.

I agree with others that you and your FH need to come to a mutually agreeable decision about your career and financial goals and how you are going to work together to achieve them. If you've been trying and aren't really getting anywhere with that discussion, I would strongly suggest counseling. As has been mentioned, yes, you could be the primary breadwinner while your FH pursues his writing career, if that is what you want to do. But, depending on your career and geographical location, it might not be possible to make things work on one salary. (We live in So Cal where basic living expenses often mean a "six-figure income" is necessary to have a pretty basic middle-class lifestyle.) It's important to support each other's career dreams/goals, but sometimes there need to be strong contingency plans. We have a relative whose goal is to be a novelist, which is awesome, but at 38 yrs old, he's still single, living with his parents, and working a part-time clerical job to cover his most basic expenses.... I also have a relative who has spent the last 20+ yrs pursuing a career as a dancer and actor in NYC; she's had some professional success at times (a touring company for a yr, a couple of seasons with a renowned dance troupe, etc.), but she's spent a lot more time teaching freelance pilates classes, etc. Luckily, her husband has a lot of seniority in a trade that provides an income that covers their financial needs. Yes, love is more important than money, but financial issues are frequently a primary factor in divorce -- it's so important you are on the same page. Good luck!

Ok, so tough talk for everyone.

DH and I are both actors. He's also a sportswriter. And a barista (when it's not COVID). I'm a server/host in a restaurant (when it's not COVID). And a nanny (when it's not COVID).

It's *tough*. We're broke all the time. Honestly, the extra $600/week was super helpful in the colder months. I can make good money... but usually when it's nice out, and people want to go out to eat. We bought a few things we needed, but mostly stockpiled it, because... we're still mostly out of work. If things work out, DH will have work by the end of the month.

Saying "Plan B" to an artist is telling them you don't think they are good enough at their art. "Plan B" to an artist is giving up what we trained to do (we both have degrees in theatre, and a resume to match), what they love to do, what we honestly resigned ourselves to grueling it out until we found a way to be a working-class or middle-class artist. We don't like being poor, but we'd rather be poor and working at what we love, than taking a job that will crush our creativity. That's why so many artists work in service jobs - they are flexible, can be dropped and picked up with relatively little consequences, and can just about keep a roof over our heads. It's a lifestyle, but a really hard one.

On the flip side, we have family support. FIL is an actor, too, and my parents co-own our condo, and my father is trying to figure out a way for me to work in his company right now, so we have some income coming in. (I have worked for him before when his biz manager has been away/been ill, so this is not new.) DH's sportswriting is gaining traction, and he's got a podcast, now, that's doing well, for a new one. My IL's are always happy to have us for dinner, tend to buy us clothes for the holidays, and have been generous with other gifts/support. So... we're *SUPER* privileged in that way. ...But at the same time, theatres are closed. Television and film are way down. Voice over may be booming, but ... you have to have special equipment and the competition is overwhelming at the moment.

Marrying an artist is not for the faint of heart. I'd recommend counseling, because pressuring him won't work (and will likely backfire), but you panicking isn't exactly healthy, either. He can make a living in his field... but it could be a while. You both need to decide if you can live with that.

But, please, stop pushing "Plan B". It won't end well, and I can only tell you that from bitter experience.

If you’re “freaking out” about it, then go with your gut because marriage magnifies pre-existing issues. It’s definitely a concern because dreams don’t pay the bills!! If your FH wants to pursue his dreams on the side that’s perfectly cool... as long as his main focus and task is supporting the household with a stable and secure income. Otherwise it’s selfish to knowingly leave you carrying the weight when he’s perfectly capable. I’d make sure the issue is understood and resolved prior to marriage because financial stress (especially when you’re on different pages about it) is a ticking time bomb in a marriage.

As many have said, I think a discussion needs to be had. Maybe even involve an objective third-party, like a counselor or a pastor if you go to church. Money discussions are extremely tough to have for sure, but you both need to make sure your goals are aligned long-term. It is perfectly fine that he is a writer and perfectly fine that you have a more steady career, however if you guys expect different levels of support (financial or otherwise) from the other, then you will run into problems.

Honestly, there’s a difference between caring if he’s rich vs caring that he has an unstable non-career... even if he’s really good at writing, the truth is that 99% of people who want to be a writer will never actually “make it” as a writer. It’s a bit delusional to put all your eggs in that basket. Sorry if that’s a little harsh lol. I don’t mean to say he shouldn’t be writing... writing is actually my passion too! I’ve written novels before. But I consider it a hobby not a career. I studied English and creative writing in college. I would love for my full time job to be “writer” but that’s just not realistic.

Throughout my childhood and teenage years, I wanted to write kids' books. I love writing, photography, creating. So I understand your FI's desire to do those things. I now write (not enough) in my spare time, and I work in finance.

Very, very few people are monetarily successful in these fields and your FI, statistically, is not likely to be one of them. That isn't harsh or judgmental, that's reality, and you saying as much doesn't make you a naysayer, it makes you pragmatic. Part of why I went into finance was because I knew I'd have to work 40 hours a week doing *something* so it might as well be something more lucrative than retail. It's hard to be in the creative zone when you're worried about money.

I would end this relationship, especially if he expects you to finance his dream-chasing.

View Quoted Comment

Yes, this, especially regarding retirement and home buying. What is your FI's plan, OP?

So, overall, my opinion is that it's great to have passion for something, and a goal to pursue it as a career. That to me, shows a lot of drive! Especially when the chances of anyone (not just your FH) becoming successful in a specific area can be slim. However, when that passion turns into just blatant disregard for your guys' wellbeing, then it's a problem. You can't keep fighting for a dream, while having the other pay the way for both. If that makes sense? He'll just have to understand, that at some point, a minimum wage retail job isn't going to work. As long as you have that understanding, I think you're good.

I'd say money matters because this is your future and this is how your future children will be supported. If he's having a hard time supporting himself right now, he'll have a hard time supporting a family as well. I believe, as a man, it's your priority to make sure your family is supported, even if that means working 2 jobs and exhausting all possibilities. When a man enters into a relationship with a woman, he needs to make sure he's in a position to handle his responsibility as a man. This includes dating. If you can't afford to date, you shouldn't date. I know this sounds harsh but it's not a woman's role to carry the family financially if the man doesn't exhaust every opportunity to give his best.