Anyone have a marriage with a self-ordained minister, or a self-uniting ceremony in PA recently?

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@Jenny, I don't have any information on this, but I would like to follow to see if anyone posts any information about this, as I'm getting married in PA and was hoping to have my cousin marry us who is internet-ordained...

"I just called the marriage license office and the clerk told me that internet-ordained ministers are not "recognized" and our marriage could be challenged legally in the future."

Why would you want to take a chance like that?

Hire a pro -- whether a minister of an actual church or a civil officiant!

@Nancy- I am completely willing the take the chance. The issue would likely only arise if we got divorced and one of us claimed the marriage wasn't valid to begin with. I know that anything can happen, but FH and I have been together for over a decade and have 2 kids together and even if we do get divorced it's unlikely to be that acrimonious. The more I research it the more it seems like an internet-ordained officiant is discouraged but not prohibited.

We could always do a self-uniting ceremony and have an officiant "for looks" basically. Or go to a Justice of the Peace later.

@Megan- I want my cousin to perform our marriage, too. We do have a family friend who is a minister and has offered to marry us, but I don't know him (he's my Aunt's friend's husband) and we're not religious.

I think I'm going to send my Mom down to the Marriage license office to take a picture of the signs they have hanging on the walls so I can see exactly what they say. I'll let you know what happens

Mindy, are you getting married in PA? What County? I heard that the rules differ a bit by county.

When I called about this same issue a couple weeks ago, they said that it wasn't accepted in PA and then they sent us to this website

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/23/00.015.003.000..HTM

and I also heard that the rules differ slightly be county

@Stephanie- who did you call? Was it someone in the State or the county you're getting married in?

I think the main problem is how you define "regularly established church or congregation". There are those who argue that an internet-ordained minister doesn't have a congregation. Is the Universal Life Church a "regularly established church"? Here's what Wikipedia says:

A large number of people seeking ULC Ordination do so in order to be able to legally officiate at weddings or perform other spiritual rites. This aspect of the ULC has provided relief to interfaith couples or same-sex couples experiencing difficulty in getting their union performed in a religious atmosphere. Some people living in remote areas also use their status as ordained ULC ministers to meet the marriage officiant needs of their communities. However, except in Mississippi, where marriages performed by ULC ministers have been recognized as valid, the solemnization of a marriage by a minister of the Universal

Life Church (who is not otherwise authorized) may result in the validity of the marriage being under a cloud.

In the United States, the requirements for entering into marriage are determined by state law. Courts in New York, North Carolina, and Virginia have ruled that, under applicable state law, ULC ministers are not authorized to solemnize marriages and a marriage at which a ULC minister officiated therefore is not valid.[9] North Carolina law subsequently was amended to validate marriages performed by ministers of the Universal Life Church prior to July 3, 1981.[10] The Supreme Court of Mississippi has ruled that Mississippi has a less restrictive statute and recognizes ULC ministers as able to perform valid marriages in that state.[11] Lower courts in Pennsylvania have split on the issue.[12]

Here's reference [12]: ^ Robert E. Rains, Marriage in the Time of Internet Ministers: I Now Pronounce You Married, But Who Am I To Do So?, 64 U. Miami L. Rev. 809, 830 - 34 (2010).

So that reference is two years old. I know that these marriages have taken place in PA in the last few years, but the ones I've been able to verify have not been in my county.

Okay. I did more research and it definitely seems like each County handles things a bit differently. Each one has different info on their web sites about the validity of marriages officiated by internet-ordained ministers. Bucks county says that the couple is supposed to make sure their minister meets PA requirements and that they don't check. York County says they don't recognize internet-ordained ministers.

But, it appears that a self-uniting marriage is completely, 100%, legal and valid in PA. The person at the Allegheny County marriage license office told me it's really no different then getting a regular marriage license, just be sure to tell the clerk that's what we want when we pick it up.

So, we will either file for a self-uniting license (but still use the internet-ordained cousin in the ceremony itself), or get our license from Bucks county or another county that's more internet-minister friendly (you aren't required to get married in the county your license is from,

...as long as you stay within the state).

Self-ordained with a certificate does not mean legal. In many states (and even certain jurisdictions within states may differ) but many require that anyone ordained into a "church" is not legal unless they have a "recognized congregation or following" which internet ordained pastors do not.

Why dpn't you just do a self-uniting service and have your cousin preside?

Oops just saw your last post. Sounds like the best way to go